Mission to Grow: A Small Business Guide to Cash, Compliance, and the War for Talent

MTG - Mary Simmons #110

Mike Vannoy: [00:00:00] The 2024 HR Benchmark Report is in. We asked over 1, 000 businesses to respond to 40 questions. That's five questions in eight areas from pre employment through post employment. I'll tell you real quick, recruiting and hiring, benefits, onboarding, development, compliance, retention, performance, and post employment.
So five questions each. Do you do this? Yes or no questions. Times eight sections. That's 40 questions total. Then we ask one question at the end. What best describes you last year? Was it a fast growth year, a growth year, or was it zero growth? You were down or flat year over year. We then correlated all of those HR questions.
to revenue growth. We know HR is important for organizations. You can't choose to not follow the law, even if it's accidental. Uh, and it's really complex. I think a lot of times people think about HR. Uh, in, in, in staying compliant with laws, there's so much happening, whether it's ban the [00:01:00] box, uh, uh, workplace privacy, data, data, privacy, uh, uh, uh, uh, benefits, uh, minimum wage, the, the, the changes just don't ever seem to end, and so there's a lot to keep up with.
But I think what most business owners really care about is revenue growth. And so we just want to understand what would be the impact. So this is, uh, uh, our series where we're unpacking each of those eight areas that we talked about. And today we're going to talk about onboarding. Uh, something as simple as, do you.
or don't you follow the best practices on onboarding an employee has a tremendous impact on revenue growth in ways that you might not expect. Spoiler alert, one of these questions for smaller firms under 25 employees, there's a 30 percentage point difference between fast growth firms and zero growth firms onboarding thing.
Looking forward to unpacking the data with you.

Intro: Welcome to Mission to Grow, the small business guide to cash, compliance, and the war for [00:02:00] talent. I'm your host, Mike Vannoy. Each week, we'll bring you experts in accounting, finance, human resources, benefits, employment law, and more. You'll learn ways to access capital through creative financing and tax strategies, tactical information you need to stay compliant with ever changing employment laws, and people strategies you need to win the war for talent.
Mission to Grow is sponsored by Asure.
Asure helps more than 100, 000 businesses get access to capital. Stay compliant and develop the talent they need to grow. Enjoy the show!

Mike Vannoy: All right, we are talking onboarding. Uh, here's the five questions that we're going to unpack with my guest today. Mary, everybody knows Mary. I don't have to introduce you. Looking forward to our conversation, Mary. Uh, so, uh, five questions, binary yes, no answers that we then correlate to revenue growth. Was it a fast growth year?
or was it a zero growth year? We further break out the data in this podcast, looking at all firms versus just smaller firms under 25 employees. [00:03:00] Here's the five questions that we're going to unpack today. Do you have an onboarding checklist for new employees? Do you have an employee handbook that's been updated in the last 12 months?
Spoiler alert, that's the biggie. Do you have a new hire packet or e paperwork? Do new hires go through formal orientation to learn the company's mission, vision, and values? And are hiring managers and staff trained how to complete I 9s compliantly? So if we just average the answers, Mary, I'd say this one came, I'd say impactful.
In kind of middle of the road, we had some categories that, uh, didn't show as strong a correlation. In all cases, there was a correlation. Better HR always, in every single instance, equated to, uh, faster revenue growth. I'd say this is a middle of the pack category onboarding, but there's a couple here that were really big near the top for the entire survey.
[00:04:00] Um, so this entire category of onboarding, Uh, there's a 13 percentage point difference between zero growth firms and your fastest growth firms. When you slice this to look at companies under 25 employees, it jumps to 21%. So, uh, small business owners and entrepreneurs, founders, especially such a simple thing like onboarding might sound boring, might sound like a checklist, might sound administrative 21 percentage point difference.
65% versus 85%. Uh, excuse me. Yeah. Difference, uh, in, uh, zero growth firms versus, versus fast growth firms. I got a math problem here. 65 to 85 is 20. It says 21. I bet there's a rounding issue in, in my formula. There's a big spread for, for the, for the fast growth firms. Before we jump into individual [00:05:00] questions, you, you see clients, your team talks to clients every single day.
What, what do you see in the onboarding practices for firms of all sizes?

Mary Simmons: I mean, listen, I'm going to say again, and I've said it in the past that I'm not sure when we say onboarding and a client answers, yes, I'm doing it, that we're talking about the same exact thing. Um, I would also say that it's very, very important. And a lot of times I'll talk to clients and go, yeah, onboard them.
I have them fill out a I 9 and a W 4 Like, yeah, we bring them in, you know, kind of thing. So I think it, it runs the gamut and I think it's, um, as I always say, there's a compliance side and a culture side. And if you're not hitting both of those C's, then you're missing the [00:06:00] boat and it's not being done correctly. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it on, on prior episodes in this series. This qualitative, right? So we're asking, do you do it or don't you do it? Yes or no. Um, it doesn't mean that they're doing it well. So do you have an employee handbook that's been updated in the last 12 months? You might say yes. It could suck.

Mike Vannoy: Sorry, but it might not even be legal. There could be all pre But, but, but here's, I think, maybe the takeaway for folks. The fact that zero growth firms didn't say yes to a 21 point spread compared to the fast growth firms, just by simply trying. You're signaling to your employees that you care. You're obviously leaning in in this area.
You're, you're putting, uh, the, the first day, first week experience, making that a priority for people. And that just has other impacts. Whether you're doing it as well as you could, or even should, the fact that you're [00:07:00] doing it versus not doing it has a big impact.

Mary Simmons: absolutely. A hundred percent. And I know we, we talk a lot about And, you know, I talked to a lot of business owners who were like, I've never been caught. I'm fine. Right. And we always say hope is not a great strategy, but, but, um, I, I understand where you're coming from because I hear it so often, but we're talking about fast growth.
Or growth. And all of this is tied to growth of the organization. You gotta start that employee off the right way. You know, setting expectations, making a positive impact to help make that employee productive, which helps make your organization grow. It is tied to growth. Um, so even if you don't, you know, subscribe to the compliance side of things, it doesn't, you know, I'm not trying to scare people.
I'm [00:08:00] trying to make, build awareness here. But if that doesn't resonate with our audience, I want the growth piece to resonate. Cause I think everybody wants to grow their

Mike Vannoy: Which was the purpose of the survey, right? I mean,

Mary Simmons: A

Mike Vannoy: don't get to choose, you don't get to not follow the law. And I always use this example. I mean, the reality is it's also illegal to drive 56 to 55, but people do it all the time and they never get caught. So I
mean,

Mary Simmons: Right.

Mike Vannoy: should you comply?
Well, of course you should. And that's, you know, what we're here to help do that. But when you're, when you're white knuckling it, trying to run a business and stay compliant, nobody's breaking the law on purpose, usually. Um, but the, you know, revenue solves all problems. Revenue solves hiring HR resources and in, in, in, in all kinds of things to stay compliant.
It really is all about growing your business and revenue growth. Let's jump into the questions. So if you're following along at home, uh, hopefully you've downloaded the [00:09:00] HR benchmark report. Uh, out of the resources section of the website, we have a two page spread on onboarding. So lots of content here. Uh, the benchmark report really puts some color commentary around some of the high points.
I'm gonna just go question by question. So let's start with the first one. Do you have an onboarding checklist for new employees? Zero growth firms. So this is one where the majority of people said yes, by a fairly large margin. 76 percent said yes. 89 percent of fast growth firms said yes. Still a 13 point spread.
That spread widens just a bit when we look at smaller firms under 25 employees. 74 percent of zero growth firms said yes. 89 percent of fast growth firms said yes. Mary, I think this, this kind of, you kind of gave the example at the top. You know, what, what do you see for the really well run companies that are growing fast?
But what is it about that they [00:10:00] do or don't do when, for an onboarding checklist?

Mary Simmons: going to give you the opposite first, because I was on a call with a employer the other day and not a small employer, you know, four locations, 40 to 50 employees, in New York, right? So you got a lot of, things to, look out for there, who had zero checklist. So, you know, and there's things that are specific to local and state law that they have to be compliant with.
And they're not, I would say that the companies that are fast growth, that bring us on, they may have this, what we try to do is automate. ensure best practices as well as compliance, right? So that's the other piece to growth is that when you partner with, [00:11:00] with an HR firm, what we try to do is help you with best practices.
Those best practices are what your competitors are doing, um, that are probably answering this study in the fast growth or growth
area. So let's break it up. Let's break the new hire checklist into the two buckets around compliance. And then I'll say culture and performance, right? You're the two C's culture and compliance. Um, what are the, what are the, some of the areas that you see employers making a mistake where around onboarding compliance that a checklist just would help them so much?
Yeah, I think from the culture, from a culture standpoint, I think that we should include on that checklist, uh, some information about the organization. Yes, I want to believe in my, you know, best, uh, uh, best self that every [00:12:00] candidate went on our website, did extensive research on the organization. I just don't think that's true for a cashier.
Um, and, You know, I can remember joining Ashore. Did I do a lot of research? Yes. But nothing's better than the information that you're going to give me. So I think a lot of times that culture piece is missing on the checklist. I think the checklist makes it real. It makes it professional and it We'll make it consistent, right?
So if I'm going to add a C to our list, it's culture, consistency, and then compliance, because when we're not consistent, our compliance is going to plummet and that's really gonna, gonna hurt us. So, um, and I guess checklist could be the fourth C, I don't know, but anyway, I think that checklist just, it, you know, it's the professional thing to do.
And then you have it and you put it right in Mike's. [00:13:00] employee file, and if there's a lawsuit, I know what I gave Mike. If there's an issue down the road, I know I gave you the job description because it's on the checklist and I

Mike Vannoy: And perhaps you even initialed it. Depending on what your process is, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So, from a compliance standpoint, it seems that the checklist is there for you. Hey, make sure that I am actually following all the laws and I've got an audit trail that I did so, right? So, sign the thing, have them initial it. that might feel a little legalistic. Um, you got advice for people whether they should is, if you're, if for someone who's overly concerned that I don't want, I don't want this onboarding first day. I want it to be, I want it to be personal and relational. And then I don't want them feeling like this is some legalistic thing.
What would you say to somebody who felt that way?

Mary Simmons: Well, there's things that you have to do and, uh, you don't [00:14:00] want to get a fine. And I would say that, um, you know, there's different ways you can do it, right? So, You know, you're going to make that first day as pleasant as possible, you know, uh, I'm a foodie, right? So I always say, take them to breakfast, take them to lunch or, you know, treat them, you know, give them a gift card, whatever, whatever it is.
Um, so you can do this compliance piece without making it completely, you know, ho hum. I've done this for 35 years and There's great ways to make it, you know, uh, the compliance not, not feel, you know, like, like you're, uh, you know, boring, boring the person on their first day. There's always a lot of paperwork, right?
Um, just, you know, add some culture to it as well to,

Mike Vannoy: I think, I mean, you just hit the nail on the head for me. That's exactly what I was going to say. It's like, Even if it's a legalistic set of documents you're taking someone through, and this checklist is there for nothing to protect you, [00:15:00] the way in which you deliver it, Still matters a whole heck of a lot versus, slapping a pen and some paper down on the desk and say, tell me what, let me know when you're done.
walk them through it, be open and inviting and encouraging and talking to them all the time. So the way in which you do it matters a whole heck of a lot. But then I
think
then, but then, adding cultural components, what would you say? So if I'm putting together a new hire checklist, day one, I've got all my local state laws covered.
So, uh, state of New York, I got to, you know, here's my, this, here's my leave type. I got to talk through, here's the minimum wage, here's this disclosure, here's all this stuff I got to walk through. So I got a checklist that's for me. Now I want to add culture. oriented items to this checklist for them to make them feel welcomed and invited and pulled into the story.
What, what would be your guidance there?

Mary Simmons: [00:16:00] Well, I know that we're, we're going to talk about handbooks cause that was one of the questions, but your handbook is such an important document and that should be infused with your culture, right? And there's a lot of good stuff in the handbook for the employee. Time off, right? That's, that's going to be one of their first questions.
So talk about that. If you are a publicly traded company, I would certainly share, um, information about that. Even if you're not, um, Here's an organizational chart. Here's your job description. Um, all of that information is important for an employee to feel part of the organization and hit the ground running.
Again, productivity leads to a fast growing company.

Mike Vannoy: just, I mean, it's a perfect segue to what I think is the biggie. This is the most, I mean, you and I talk about this on this show all the
time.

Mary Simmons: Yeah.

Mike Vannoy: the employee handbook. If you got a day one checklist, you got your legalistic stuff covered. [00:17:00] The, if you have a good compliant handbook, and that's a big if, um, the handbook itself could be the majority of your agenda for this checklist.
Is that right?
Yeah, you know, it's not going to have the I 9 and it's not going to have the, um, some of the other things, but a lot of it is going to be driven by the handbook. You don't need to go page by page in the handbook, but the handbook is a huge piece to it. It definitely has the culture. It definitely has the compliance.

Mary Simmons: It definitely has the consistency. So we're checking all of those boxes, um, but it also makes your firm look, your organization look more professional, right? Um, this is a place I want to work. This is, you know, organized. I don't, you know, it's not like, I don't know when you get vacation. I forget what I told the
last [00:18:00] person.

Mike Vannoy: All right. I want to go through the data here. Um, and I think there's two big points. Number one is across the entire group, zero growth to fast growth for all companies is an 18 point spread, not insignificant, right? So, uh, 63 versus 81%, a big spread, uh, uh, for, for simply having an updated handbook.
And again, quantitative, not qualitative. You and I very well know these things aren't always in compliance and some of them are really not good. But here's the big number. For smaller firms under 25 employees, it jumps to a 30 point spread, where 50 percent of zero growth firms said they had an updated handbook in the last 12 months, 80 percent of fast growth.
So the fast growth firms, 81 percent of the total, 80 percent uh, uh, uh, in the 25 and under. So 4 out of 5 businesses that are fast growth, [00:19:00] regardless of size, do it. The big drop is the zero growth. So 63 percent of the big population down to 50 percent of the broader population. So it seems obvious what some of the drivers there, why do you think small businesses, especially struggle in this area?
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mary Simmons: Time, you don't have the time to do it, right? So even if they think, oh, I'm just going to Google search it. You know, we have this conversation all the time, uh, but you, you can't Google what you don't know, number one. Um, and number two, you know, then even if you find the policy, it's like, well. Does that have to go in the handbook?
Do I trust this site that I just pulled up? You know, how do I put it in my handbook? How do I customize it to make it fit my culture? And wait a minute, I only have five employees. Does that, So by the time you're done researching it, [00:20:00] uh, and I, you know, I've had this conversation. So I, I, this is the verbatim from many clients.
They just give up. It's like, I just, you know, and, and you get one of those. I mean, listen, it takes my team four to five hours to do a handbook and customize it. And we do like a hundred a

Mike Vannoy: And these are people, not only a hundred a week, but SHRM certified
professionals. They know what good
looks

Mary Simmons: Right, right. So yeah, small business owner doesn't have the time to do this. And to be honest with you, the cost is so small and I know every cost is important to an employer, but you have to pay yourself the time to do it. So I say that all the time. I'm like, yes, you could do that yourself. It's probably going to take you.
20, I don't know, or longer hours to do a handbook. What do you make an hour, Mr. Business Owner? You probably make a hundred to 200 an hour. [00:21:00] Now it's cheaper to have somebody else do it and do
it

Mike Vannoy: So I agree that the number one reason smaller businesses struggle is time. Yeah. The entrepreneur, business owner, somebody under 25 employees, they wear so many hats, they work so many hours, they're spread so thin that I know for a fact that's number one, uh, is personal experience. Um, I'm going to say number two, this may be as more, I'm jumping into the qualitative, not the quantitative, um, guide people where they can get in trouble with Google.
And I think maybe more specifically, you know, Co pilot, chat GPT, choose your LLM. And in the AI world where, you know, our kids are writing their term papers and these things, why can't I just use GPT to crank out my, my employee handbook? Where could I possibly go wrong?

Mary Simmons: Well, they, they come right out and say, we're not, um, updated, [00:22:00] uh, you know, in the past year, and I think the other thing that you may be, so AI is not the way you can do this because they're not. It says it everywhere. Uh, there's plenty of disclaimers that it's, it's not updated and we've proven it. We test it all the time.
We use AI, um, and we know when not to use AI, and this would not, compliance is not a place to use AI for sure. Writing an, writing an ad, maybe. Um, but even then you, you, there's a compliant piece to it. I think the other thing for business owners is. They don't know they have to update it every year.
Because when I ask that question, they'll say, I just did it last year. What do you mean? Did I update it this year? Even if something didn't change, even if you're in a state where there isn't a lot of compliant, [00:23:00] compliance things that you have to Adhere to, What changed in your business, Mike? Let's walk through it and let me help you with best practices, right?
Um, timekeeping for me is, is always a big one. What are you seeing? Is there a lot of overtime, Mike? Oh my gosh, the overtime is killing me. Well, let's talk about that. We can have a policy in the handbook. You have to pay overtime if they work it. Let's put a policy in the handbook that says you have to have either your approval, Mike, if you're a small business owner, or, you know, some level of management before you can work any overtime.
And then we got to train to train the managers to that policy. It has to be looked at every single year. And I would say, that it needs to be looked at from, from external eyes. Cause when you look at something you do, you have blinders on, right? So you need external

Mike Vannoy: [00:24:00] All right. So kind of recap, you know, we started with, do you have an onboarding checklist? Your guidance is the number one thing you got to start. You got a nine, nine, you got some compliance stuff. You got to fill out. Um, uh, you know, insurance, paperwork, whatever, whatever the case may be, but maybe the most important thing outside of the, the legal requirements is use, heavily rely on your employee handbook as part of your onboarding, boarding experience, not just for the legalistic reasons, but for the culture building to re engage, uh, if, if, if, if nothing else.
Here's a, here's an excuse to have business process review with every employee once per year. Right.
Yeah. Right. A hundred
And, and, and I want to spend just another second on the AI stuff. I mean, as a, as a marketer, you know, I, I, I, we, we use AI a lot. Um, and I can just tell you from firsthand experience, [00:25:00] short copy, like an ad.
Uh, it's brilliant. It's a game changer for scale. Um, but it absolutely starts to hallucinate the longer your document is. And my experience is it can, it can output a document that sounds really authoritative, but it's not. to someone who doesn't know better. Um, and, and that to me is the biggest risk because it's going to, it's going to, I could say, give me, give me an employee handbook for, uh, uh, St.
Louis County, Missouri, uh, for an employer of, uh, under 25 employees in XYZ industry. And it's going to spit something out that if I'm not CHIRM certified, I don't know, did it actually search authoritative sites? Is it just grabbing words from all over and just, it sounds really smart, but it's actually incredibly inaccurate.
Could actually hurt me more [00:26:00] than help me. I, I just, I would, I just, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a huge fan of AI. Use it all the time. And it went up, but really exercise caution in this area.

Mary Simmons: Oh yeah. And then ChatGPT in particular will say that. Right. They're, they're honest about their shortcomings and they want users to be cautious and the compliance side, um, they're, again, we test it all day, every day, we have an AI committee, uh, you know, we have an AI newsletter that we create, um, when it comes to compliance, that, that's one of their biggest, um,
Mike Vannoy: Okay. Let's move to the next one. Do you have a new hire packet or e paperwork? So whether it's, whether it's paper or digital, do you have a new hire packet? Right. Um, across the board. So this is an [00:27:00] area that had very low spread. That is not a big difference. Uh, in, uh, all but the small companies, only a four point spread from 81 to 85%.
So it seems that especially in larger firms, okay, you get some type of new hire packet. Now, again, quantitative, not qualitative. It could be really, really good. It could be really, really bad, but there's a 17 point spread for firms under 25 employees. 74 percent versus 91%, 91 percent of fast growth firms.
So that just seems like an area where. Fast growth firms, the lowest score for fast growth firms is higher than the highest for, uh, in any category for zero growth firms. So there's just something about fast growth firms that just seem to get Even the basic stuff, like a, like a new hire packet. Um, first I'm curious for your thoughts on why such a big difference between small businesses under [00:28:00] 25 employees and the rest of population for, for a new hire packet, and then I got a couple of followups for you.

Mary Simmons: I mean, I think, I think it goes back to the same questions with the handbook. I think it's time. And I think it's, and I mean this kindly, ignorance, right? What needs to go in there? Do I need a new hire packet? What is a new hire packet, right? So I think, I think those are the two reasons. They're, they're important.
It's a small, when you're a small organization that that's not really growing, you're probably more concerned about, I'm not growing. Let me get that person in here. And you know, you think the best thing to do is throw them out on the floor when in fact it's, it's the opposite. It's taking the time to do it correctly. and this is one of those things, that new hire packet, we didn't ask anybody what's in it.

Mike Vannoy: So, uh, I

Mary Simmons: Right.

Mike Vannoy: assume some of these didn't make you blush for [00:29:00] maybe how not good they are, but there's just something about that I think that there's just intentionality.
When you just do it, I mean, even if it's not great, you're signaling to your employee that you care and you're trying and the fact that you're someone who cares and tries probably manifests itself in all kinds of ways.
Just the demeanor you carry yourself, the way you talk to your employees, the way you engage them. So, uh, a big, big value in just doing it. Um,
let's shift to the qualitative for what you see. Where do you see some of the deficiencies in new hire packets and what would be some of the best practices that you would recommend for folks?

Mary Simmons: So they definitely do lack a lot of the compliant pieces. And look, every state, I will say this, I'm going to make a pretty bold statement here, but, uh, almost every state has something [00:30:00] compliant that they have to adhere to in onboarding. So, you know, California, It has a lot, but when you look at Tennessee, as an example, where we have a lot of clients, it's E Verify, right?
So that's not in the packet, but it's part of the onboarding. So there's always going to be a compliance piece to it. So compliance is definitely, I think, you know, very important. And what I see in those fast growth firms is they tend to get a lot of the compliance right, not, not all of it. Um, and like I said, just cause you give it and fill it out doesn't mean it's filled out
right.

Mike Vannoy: I'm curious for your thoughts on this. I also feel like, okay. That onboarding checklist, the employee handbook, these are things one on one between either hiring manager and employee or, uh, owner, uh, employee, [00:31:00] HR and employee. But this new hire packet, especially if it's old school paper, this might be the thing that gets shared back at home.
I like it. I mean, I know it's super stereotypical, you know, my wife will, I'll talk about something about this year's benefits. She'll ask me a question. I have no idea. I didn't pay attention. Cause I don't really even go to the doctor when I should. Right. But that, that packet of information, all of a sudden, this is something to help the family.
She'll read and, and I think employers got to realize when you hire an employee, they're a member of a family or a community or, uh, This thing has legs beyond just the conversation you have with that new hire.

Mary Simmons: Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's great way to put it. And the benefits are, are going to be important, right? What's, what's the 401k, you know, the family cares, or, you know, it's a young person joining the organization [00:32:00] and they bring that paperwork to, you know, friends or family, uh, and say, Oh, I really understand what they went over, you know, what's this mean to me?
So the, the 401k information, the. Benefits information, the, you know, there's COBRA information that you give at hire if you're an employer that's providing benefits, right? So, oh, when I leave, look at this, I, I get COBRA or mini COBRA, depending on the state. So all of that, you, you're, you're, you're right, Mike, that you make a great point

Mike Vannoy: Um, so it ties to culture. I'm going to move on to the next one for culture. And it's a little bit the same story. This is one that I feel like we've got a lot of yeses for all size firms, including small, but my gut says there's a massive difference in the qualitative component where I want to spend some time.
Do new hires go through formal orientation to learn [00:33:00] the company's mission, vision, and values? 71 percent versus 75 percent zero growth to fast growth firms. It's only a four point spread. So everybody says they're doing it. I have my doubts. Um, but this is over a thousand respondents. So I'll take them at the word that they're doing it.
I suspect the big difference is the qualitative. Smaller companies, 125 employees. It's a 12 point spread. You go from 64 to 76%. So meaningful, but not massive. This is something you guys, your team sees every single day. What do you see is the big difference between the companies who you think do this right versus,
I don't know. I was actually, I, I, when I looked at the statistics, I was shocked it was so high for the slow. Company. So, so, you know, and I'm not doubting anybody, anybody's answer. Um, it was [00:34:00] anonymous after all. Um, but, but I was a little shocked at that. Um, Happy, I guess, that, that they're doing it. And I, I guess, you know, the differences that we see is the quality, right.

Mary Simmons: And, and that is, you know, we weren't solving for in this benchmark, but, uh, I think your point is well taken that to do some of this is better than not doing it, uh, but I, you know, as a compliance expert nerd, I would say that that sometimes could get you in more trouble or do more damage, right? Because like we're saying, you take that home to family and it's, you know, unprofessional, typos, you know, you know, whatever out of date, you know, it's got 2023 on it and it's 2024.
You don't look professional and, um, I'm HR, you're [00:35:00] marketing, uh, both of our, of our, uh, Areas of, of influence are affected by that paperwork. How are you marketing your firm? Now your firm doesn't look professional,

Mike Vannoy: you know, back in my agency days, I spent a lot of time taking business leaders through mission, vision, values, workshops. Um, my sense is that most firms really under think that they think it's something they're supposed to do. Um, left to their own devices, frequently they'll default to like the customer is our number one priority and there'll be, uh, a poster with two people shaking hands in the entry room with that, but do they actually live out those values?
I, my, my sense is that's where the biggest rub is here. Um, Uh, you know, if [00:36:00] If there's a picture of an eagle that's behind the receptionist that says customers are number one priority, the eagle's soaring high, but the person that their receptionist Doesn't look up, doesn't make eye contact, is on their cell phone while doing a transaction with you and you almost feel like you're annoying them by being there. That poster doesn't mean crap, right? So just because you have it doesn't mean much if you don't live it out. My, my intuition says. Lots of people said yes to this question because it's probably easy to mail in. Um, but it's only the companies that are really growing that actually have a mission, a vision, and a set of values that underpin that mission and vision.
Uh, in things that are really real and part of that onboarding experiences. is [00:37:00] taking people through that in a meaningful way. Like I mean it in, in a way that they believe you when you say it.

Mary Simmons: right. We, I, when we assist clients in creating, um, these, We say, you got to pressure test this. You can't, you can't just make this up because you think it sounds good. The customer is always right. Let's, let's take that one. What does that mean to you? How do you train to that? Uh, where is that going to be on the evaluations for every single employee in this organization?
Those that are client facing and those that aren't, right? How are we getting there? Right? So, and how does that help us grow? So, It's all tied together, but it has to be pressure tested. You can't create a mission, vision, and values without what [00:38:00] we've done is employee surveys, client surveys, focus groups. I mean, it has to be done in a group setting.
To me, you have to ask the employees or at least, um, you know, the majority of your leaders to come up with, with those

Mike Vannoy: Yeah. Some of the, maybe the last, last thing I would say on that, just having, having led a lot of those, those workshops, mission, vision, values that they need to be aspirational for sure. They probably need to be something that is always slightly out of reach. Um, but it also has to be plausible. If, if your, if your mission statement is we're going to be the greatest provider of XYZ and everyone in the company kind of sees, well, you know, the boss
works a 35
hour week

Mary Simmons: it or not.

Mike Vannoy: You know, when customer complaints come in, they just dish it off to so and so.
We [00:39:00] never really change your processes. So, uh, do we really walk the talk on that one? Eh, nah. You just thrown away anytime you put into making that your, your mission, right? So pick mission, vision, values. Um, that are aspirational, but it, but at least plausible. So people can feel like there's something they really cling to and aspire to and grow into.

Mary Simmons: Yeah. They have to be

Mike Vannoy: All right, let's move to our last one. Um, this one seems so simple. You talk about it all the time, Mary. Um, and people get this one wrong. I know you're going to, I know you're going to call bullshit on responses here. Um, are hiring managers and staff trained how to complete I 9s compliantly? It's a big spread.
24 percent across the main population, 29%. Uh, that's a big one. It's almost 30 percent spread for the smaller firms, [00:40:00] smaller firms. It's 62 percent versus 91%. So less than two thirds of small firms say that they train their managers. Um, maybe it's cause they're small enough. They don't have managers. That's possible.
Um, fast growth firms, say 90, 91%. What, what, what, what say you, I9 audits are something you guys kind of do for breakfast when you take on a new client,

Mary Simmons: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think when I asked this question, they say, why would I do that? It's a form. You answer the questions and I'm like, Hmm, there, there's a problem. But you know, listen, the, the business owners I'm talking to are great at their business. They're not HR professionals like me. So I can appreciate that answer.
I, I, no, no judgment here. They have a million things to do and they're saying, I nine done. Right? Check. Done. [00:41:00] Um, and when you look at the form, it is, you're like, well this isn't brain surgery. I answered there's not even that many of them to answer.
and there's not even that many. But, look, the auditors are coming in, trying to find mistakes on your I 9s.
Right? Uh, you know, that's what they're evaluated on. That's what they get paid on. They're looking for mistakes. They're not, um, you know, I've, I've dealt with many auditors, uh, coming in and they're, they're, they're looking for mistakes. So you have to train the managers. There's just no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Uh, you know, and there's definitely a compliance side, but maybe if we train them. They, they can do them a little bit faster. They're a little bit more efficient. The more efficient they are, the faster they get back to, to the rest of their work. So I think there's a lot of reasons that you train [00:42:00] them. You You, you and I have done. You and I have done at least one, I think two, maybe more one hour podcast on just how to fill out I 9s. So just not trying to unduly scare folks here. You shared some stats that kind of shocked me at the time. How many times you go in and do an I 9 audit for a new client and this simple form with just a few questions, they're not compliant.

Mike Vannoy: What can you just kind of rattle off some of the top areas where folks are out of compliance on I 9s?

Mary Simmons: So really, one of the big areas that I see is the, new employees coming in and they're going, give me a, driver's license and a social security card. So when we do the audit, Every single candidate can't be giving you just those two forms of identification. Are you only asking for those two [00:43:00] forms of identification?
So that's, that may lead to a discrimination charge, and I can tell you the auditors will pick up on it like

Mike Vannoy: Say more, it's not intuitive what you mean by that. How could that really, how could that lead to a discrimination charge?

Mary Simmons: Oh, you, you're supposed, we should be giving the, new employee either the instructions, which are very long. They're seven pages long, but we do it all electronically. So we're not killing any trees and say, look at the information. It tells you your options of identification that you can bring in and you can bring in any of those that satisfy the form.
So they should be able to bring. Whatever identification that they have. Um, the other thing that, that I see, which is a big miss is that information has to be filled out within three days of the employees starting. So we have a lot of. [00:44:00] We have a lot of chains with a lot of employees. So picture this, somebody forgot to tell, maybe you didn't do it electronically.
You forgot to tell this new employee, bring in your identification. They don't bring it. Right? The next day, they're rushing to work, or, you know, they have to ask their parents where it is, or, you know, even as an adult, like, I couldn't put my, well, I probably could, but put my finger on my birth certificate, you know, you know, if that's the form of identification I wanted to bring in this minute.
So, by day 3, It's very often that that form is not filled out. ICE would say to you, that employee cannot come to work day four until that identification is given. And I have very few employers that can afford to do that. They're like, Mary, you know, and, and if [00:45:00] it's a big organization, we had a huge organization with, you know, thousands of employees.
They're onboarding, you know, there could be 20 people in an orientation. Out of that 23, 4, you know, they have to say, you can't come in day 4, I need the So we should clarify, because the question isn't, do you make sure your employees complete an I 9 compliantly? The question is, are hiring managers and staff trained to How to do it. So I think that's the big thing. And, you know, when we get, uh, and some, some other episodes in this series, as we talk about, uh, development and retention, training is a big deal, right?

Mike Vannoy: It has a big, big impact. Um,

Mary Simmons: And the managers are the ones saying, don't worry about it, Mike, come to work, get me that identification when you can. That's why the training is so important, because you need them to, a lot of [00:46:00] times, it's exactly, it's exactly where I was going to go. Cause imagine it, let's say it's a restaurant, good example. Um, so maybe the areas where we see some of the most violations, you're a shift manager. Uh, for, for this restaurant and you're dying. You've got customers lined up at the door.

Mike Vannoy: They're mad. They're not getting their orders. I mean, the next warm body who can, who can flip a burger, you're going to just throw an apron on them and stick them in the kitchen, right? It's like, Oh my gosh, I'll take, I'll take anybody, but they're not the ones that's whose neck is on the line. That's the business owner, which is why training.
And I would say the training isn't just how to do it compliantly. There's, it's not hard, but it's very specific. So you should, should provide training. But part of that training needs to be the impact. If you don't do this, what could be the consequences

Mary Simmons: And the why. [00:47:00] Right. So this, this one employer, when they came to us, they were like, what we really need help with is the I 9s. The man, I just can't get the managers, you know, who are on site with these employees to get this identification in by day 3. And then if they don't have it to. And I was like, did you.
Explain it to them and tell them the why. You, you, they, you, they're operating in a vacuum, right? They need the warm body, like you're saying. So you gotta, you gotta explain the why. That's, that's

Mike Vannoy: Long ago, I used to coach youth football. I loved it so freaking much. It was the best. Just firing these little kids up and smashing into each other and being all aggressive. I loved it. And they all loved Coach Vannoy's crazy screaming and intensity and all that. I learned, it took me a year or two, but what I really learned when my coaching became much more effective, I [00:48:00] I got real quiet and I explained the why.
It's not just that you need to take step with your right foot and then make the block on your left shoulder and you turn your hips here. It's explained why you're doing that. And all of a sudden the light bulbs click and everything's it make, It makes all the difference when you explain the why as part of your training.

Mary Simmons: Agreed. And they feel part of it, right? And that's why we do training. So they're part of it. So again, they're driving

Mike Vannoy: All right, Mary, uh, 13 percentage point difference across the whole group. 21 points for small firms just saying yes to five best practice questions around onboarding. Clearly, good HR has a strong correlation to revenue growth. Anything you want to say in closing for this category of onboarding?

Mary Simmons: I would just say what we always say is that, um, you know, these are things that you need to look at, whether you think it's [00:49:00] important or not, you know, this survey, I love it so much because, you know, it validates the HR piece and statistics don't lie, right? You don't have to listen to me. You can listen to these statistics just to

Mike Vannoy: Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I'd say. Uh. The qualitative versus quantitative. Get the quantitative down. Just start doing things, even if you fumble your way through it and you do it badly at first, you can always improve and get better. Just start doing it. The signal that you're going to send to your employees, this intentional forward leaning approach to caring about their onboarding process, caring about them being effective, caring that they understand what's going on.
Uh, even the legalistic stuff, the rules of the road and what's required of them. Uh, it just goes so far in building the softer seas, the culture, which is, [00:50:00] is where you really start to have a big impact on productivity. Mary, I always love talking to you. Thanks for joining

Mary Simmons: Thank

Mike Vannoy: thanks to everybody else for joining today.
Uh, and thanks for letting us participate in your mission to grow until our next episode. Thanks, Mary.

Outro: That's it for this episode of Mission to Grow. Thanks for joining us today. For show notes and more episodes, visit us at missiontogrow. com. If you found this content valuable, I invite you to share it with a friend and subscribe to the show. If you really want to help, I'd love it if you left a five star review on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you listen.
Mission to Grow is sponsored by Asure. Asure helps more than 100, 000 businesses get access to capital, stay compliant, and develop the talent they need to grow. To learn more about how Asure can help your business grow, visit AsureSoftware. com. Until next time.